{"id":111992,"date":"2021-11-17T18:32:19","date_gmt":"2021-11-17T17:32:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.conceptualfinearts.com\/cfa\/?p=111992"},"modified":"2021-11-29T16:03:06","modified_gmt":"2021-11-29T15:03:06","slug":"wojciech-bakowski","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.conceptualfinearts.com\/cfa\/2021\/11\/17\/wojciech-bakowski\/","title":{"rendered":"Wojciech Bakowski: dream-like narratives (an interview)\u00a0\u00a0"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Across temporal recesses, aural interferences and poetic utterances, Wojciech B\u0105kowski – born in Pozna\u0144 in 1979 and currently represented by Stereo<\/a> (Warsaw) and Bureau<\/a> (New York) – uncloses a microcosm interspersed by inner flights and melancholic excavations. Dwelling on the possibilities of images, sounds, and words becomes a way for B\u0105kowski to dive into the boundaries of human insight, cognition, and the medium itself \u2013 while reveling in the limits of one\u2019s own reality. First presented as a series at Stereo in 2021, B\u0105kowski\u2019s charcoal drawings \u2013 traced on sandpapered cardboard \u2013 summon granular sleep states, grazing the blurriness of imagination through underexposed, dream-like recollections of prosaic objects, gestures, framings, views. In these nocturnes, where time stretches and memory resurfaces, the transference of lucid dreaming techniques into the sphere of representation leads to a contracted unfolding; a partial cracking of codes and languages; and coming to terms with the impossibility of communication.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Wojciech B\u0105kowski, Difficulties with Telling Stories, 2016\ncardboard, acrylic paint, 22,5 x 30 x 40 cm. Courtesy of the artist and Stereo, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Could you tell me about the context you grew up in?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I grew up in a housing estate in Pozna\u0144. These are blocks made of “large board,\u201d the name of a modular  technology from the early 70s. I think this environment has influenced the aesthetics of my works, all of them \u2013 art, music \u2013 and my poetry.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

How have you developed an interest in drawing, animation, performance, film- and music-making in  particular?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I have always drawn. Other forms emerged when I gained new skills, first in art school and then in art  studies. I was unsatisfied with expressing myself in one area. I needed more and more. That’s why I started doing  it all \u2013 movies, music, drawings, objects. Sometimes I worry it’s a bit too much. And the reason for choosing  the artistic path was probably very simple. I wasn’t fit for anything else. My father used to say about me: \u201cHe  has no prognosis.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

[Here is the link<\/a> to Voyager, B\u0105kowski’s latest digital album. Ed] <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Focusing on your experience in Pozna\u0144, Warsaw, and Poland in general, how do you think the history,  culture, architecture, and texture of life that belong to these places influenced your take on art?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I guess the existentialism and melancholy of my works comes from the characteristic Polish mentality,  although I may exaggerate a bit here. In terms of the visuality and atmosphere of my art, my childhood  fascinations \u2013 with the railway for example \u2013 and what I was surrounded by \u2013 small apartments, corridors,  large blocks, elevators, dog barking bouncing against large walls in backyards \u2013 certainly played a decisive  role.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Throughout your career you have been involved in several group projects. How did they come to be?  How does your<\/strong> individual practice intersect with collaborative work?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I only worked in groups at the beginning of my career. It took the form of joint education, as we learned  from each other, and promotion, since we were more visible as a group. I’m talking about the Penerstwo<\/a> group here. But in general, I’m not very suitable for group work \u2013 I’m an individualist and I see others as  competition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The press release of your latest show at Stereo begins with a quote of Flannery O\u2019Connor, in which she  points to the ability to \u201cmake something out of a little experience\u201d, stressing how merely \u201csurviving\u201d one\u2019s  childhood provides enough material to work on for the rest of one\u2019s life. How do you relate to this statement,  considering that idea of self-sufficiency, and in regard to your upbringing?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I’m glad Micha\u0142 used this quote. Flannery O’Connor’s words describe my approach well. I\u2019m not a  traveler, I\u2019m not looking for inspiration in unusual circumstances. I feed on the ordinary, the everyday, the  cheap and the easy to get. If I’m traveling, it\u2019s rather internal \u2013 I find inspiration in my memories,  imaginations and dreams. But I don’t think that’s the only right way; other artists have a different attitude and  also make good art.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Wojciech B\u0105kowski\nThe Moon, a Star, and an Overhead Light, 2021, exhibition view, Stero, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Poetry seems to hold a significant role across your production. Together with literature, text and the  written form, in<\/strong> what ways has it contributed to shaping your background and views? In terms of process,  what value does this type of language hold to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I have sensitive hearing. The word has the strongest effect on me. That is why it\u2019s at the root of all my  actions, and even when it\u2019s ultimately not part of the work, it inspires it. Each of my drawings, objects or  installations presents a poetic issue. I can’t play with pure visual expression. Sometimes I envy artists who  can do it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Could you expand on the significance that spoken word and recitation have in your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: They have a leading role. Sometimes visuality feels like a modest addition to literature to me \u2013 it only  tightens the meaning. If I give up using my voice or written text, then I expand the title of the work, like I do  in drawings. The word can never be pushed out of my work because it is the foundation of it. Sometimes I  say I’m a bad poet who has to help himself with pictures.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019ve been performing live for quite some <\/strong>time now. What kinds of needs and questions does live  performance address for you, compared to less direct, immediate means such as drawing, installation or film?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I guess it’s about my approach to life: I don’t respect my own privacy. I use myself as an artistic object.  Sometimes I feel that my physical presence \u2013 how I speak or walk \u2013 is needed to build the right atmosphere  in the work. This has become another picture added to my poetry. Of course, vanity and exhibitionism also  play an important role. But these are matters of deep psychology \u2013 a topic for a longer conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

An aspect I wanted to touch upon is the economy of your descriptive elements and the consistency of  your concern with quotidian, common, accessible objects. Often, these are things that are within reach and,  in some cases, virtually featureless or generic circumstances. Could you retrace the origin of you interest in  everyday items, and in the rituality and repetition of the day-to-day?<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I’m focused on simple things because they are common with many people; it keeps the metaphors deep.  And by “deep” I mean that the metaphor opens up many associations for many minds at once: everyone  knows what a leg, a table or a toothache are. I’m looking for the shortest path to the hearts of my audience, so  I choose these kind of channels. As a recipient, I do not like erudite, exotic and intellectual snobbery in art. I  like when artists use simple, ordinary things \u2013 that\u2019s when their talent shines. Same with technology. When  something is expensive, modern, and mysterious in terms of technology, I lose interest. I admire things that  are cheap and done easily.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Wojciech
Wojciech B\u0105kowski, Polydactyly, 2020, charcoal on cardboard, 30 x 49 cm. Courtesy of the artist and Stereo, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

How do you stay true to this bareness, to the \u2018simple nature\u2019 of your subjects, and maintain formal  clarity?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: In fact, I don’t always keep it simple. Sometimes, especially in drawings, extensive symbolism appears.  But I always make sure that the content is not too specific \u2013 that is, personal \u2013 or too general \u2013 meaning  philosophical. I guess it’s a matter of punch power. When boxers, for instance middleweights, switch to  heavy weight, they lose their flexibility and punch power, losing to those whose heavy weight is natural. For  me, what\u2019s between privacy and the collective feels natural. I’m looking for a common field of experience,  but from a \u201cpavement perspective\u201d. I don\u2019t touch on social matters or the intricacies of my family history.  Staying in between results in compositions made of simple elements, although not always. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019ve mentioned a certain nostalgia for the past before. Time appears often and in many guises across  your work: as the ticking sound of clocks, or a phone vibrating, in digits, as well as in metaphorical and non literal forms. Where does your preoccupation with the temporal dimension stem from, and what has been driving your investigation on time in such ways?<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: As I said, I’m gazing at the simplest, most basic parts of existence. Time is one of them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

In what ways does time feel simple to you?<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I know time is a difficult question in terms of physics and astrophysics. What I mean is time in a  person’s life. Maybe I used the wrong word \u2013 instead of simple, I should say basic, because experiencing it is  one of the basics of existence. But in fact, time can curl up and process strangely in feelings and memory. I  agree that it is not really that simple.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Moving to the subject of dreaming \u2013 it seems to me that, as a phenomenon, it is often mystified.  However, rather than being conditioned by pre-existing codes or narratives, your treatment feels specific and  personal. Where does your fascination for dreams, sleep, and shifts in human perception come from? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I’m generally interested in the inner life. Dreaming is a special field in itself. Here, thoughts smoothly  transform into images and sounds, and some things are symbolized by others. Bugs and glitches appear very  often in dreams, lucid dreams and hypnagogic visions. Through them, you can see a lot of truths about the  human soul.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Wojciech
Wojciech B\u0105kowski, The Heart on the Trail, 2020, cardboard relief, charcoal, bronze, speaker 35 x 36 x 10 cm. Courtesy of the artist and Stereo, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

How and when did your interest in dreams began? Was there a particular event, encounter, or experience  that sparked it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: It came out of my fascination with the past. Every morning, I drink coffee and look thoughtlessly at old  VHS films from the 80s and 90s, from Pozna\u0144 \u2013 mainly from my neighborhood. It’s kind of a ritual. I found  these movies on the internet. They are private recordings of strangers. I downloaded them to a flash drive and  displayed them on a large LCD screen in my living room-studio. After a while, the images from these movies  began to seep into my dreams. I realized I could develop these dreams because I naturally had lucid  dreaming experiences from time to time. Then I bought a book on techniques of lucid dreaming and started  practicing.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

What do you find compelling about these encounters \u2013 of diving in the chasm that distances thinking  from dreaming, thoughts from images?<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: I see this chasm as a world in which thoughts and images merge into one, or permeate one another.  There are inter-sensory feelings \u2013 hybrid formations that are thought, image, and several other things at the  same time. It fascinates me. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

And why did you feel the need to bring consciousness into an unconscious state by approaching lucid  dreaming as a technique? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: It\u2019s about a my fascination with the past. I’m an extremely melancholic and sentimental person. If  someone would have guaranteed me that after my death I would find myself in the Chrobrego estate in  Pozna\u0144 in 1987, for example, I would have committed suicide immediately. Lucid dreaming partially allows  me to reach places from the past since they are stored in the brain. I’m trying to get there, with different  results. Controlling a dream is not easy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Wojciech
Wojciech B\u0105kowski, The Memory, 2020, charcoal on cardboard, 50 x 60 cm. Courtesy of the artist and Stereo, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n
\"Wojciech
Wojciech B\u0105kowski, Child Hallucination, 2020, charcoal on cardboard, 32 x 39 cm. Courtesy of the artist and Stereo, Warsaw.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

In music as in audiovisual and image-based works, you also seem to bring attention to different  timescales and patterns of movement in space through operations of association and superimposition. In  particular, your work Sound of My Soul made me wonder how \u201csound\u201d and \u201csoul\u201d (or, more broadly, the  sensorial and the spiritual) affect our apprehension of time and reality. Are these kinds of processes pertinent  to your research on cognition? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: Once, completely intuitively, without thinking, I said that my soul is purple. This statement amused my  friends. However, there is something interesting in such jokes for me. I like to describe the atmosphere that  fills me most of the time, and I use synesthesia to describe it. I use the word “soul” conventionally, meaning  \u201cinner life.\u201d I understand the term as the whole of inner life, together with the perception of time and reality,  including sounds. I do not believe in spirit \u2013 I’m not a dualist. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

In your navigation of the urban environment and human imagination there seems to be a recurring  connection, or collision, between an outer, worldly landscape and an inner dimension, or the landscape of the  mind. What would you say you are looking for in your inquiry on the limits of cognition, human insight, and  artistic language? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Wojciech B\u0105kowski: Today I received a beautiful album with drawings by Saul Steinberg as a gift. I think we have a lot in  common, despite our different aesthetics. He was also trying to create an interior self-portrait, using  landscapes, dates, numbers and symbols. It\u2019s difficult to show the state of the soul in another way \u2013 all the  building material comes from the outside. Inside, it is processed and rendered in a system other than reality;  a system that, however, says a lot about reality. It’s not about making weird, cool narcotic visions \u2013 it’s about  telling the truth. Wittgenstein said that the poet must always consider whether what he says has something to  do with the truth, which does not necessarily mean that it is as it happens in reality. I believe this sentence explains a lot. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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